Thursday 21 March 2013, 7:30 pm - 10:00 pm
At: Banshee Labyrinth , 29-35 Niddry Street,
Unfortunately Dr Sarah Keir is unable to talk to us about the Liverpool Care Pathway this month, but Professor Ray Miller has agreed to give his talk on mental health earlier than previously planned.
Is everybody going mad? Changing definitions of mental health
Over the years diagnosis and treatment of problems defined as mental health issues has increased markedly. Whether looking at the dramatic increase of prescribed antidepressants or the burgeoning demand for psychological therapies it seems that we are suffering more than ever from mental illness and psychological distress.
One in four people can expect to suffer mental illness in their lifetime. One in seven of the population of Scotland is currently prescribed antidepressants and there is evidence of growing identification of problems of psychosis and childhood disorders such as ADHD.
But is everything as it seems? It has been suggested that this apparent deterioration has been driven by changing socioeconomic factors such as definitions of deprivation, reductions in the availability of social support, a declining tolerance for unhappiness, increasing dependency on professional interventions as opposed to self-reliance and pressure from drug companies to sell ever more expensive medications.
The fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) is due to be published in May. Produced by the American Psychiatric Association and often regarded as the bible of mental health diagnosis, it has been criticized for becoming ever more inclusive and pathologizing everyday distress in order to satisfy the requirements of American health insurance and the pharmacology industry.
So, is everybody going mad, or do we need to rethink how we define and respond to psychological distress?
Professor Ray Miller
Retired Clinical and Health Psychologist, having worked for over 35 years in the NHS in both England and Scotland. Main area of work has been Adult Mental Health where his career started working as a nursing assistant in Leverndale Hospital in
Glasgow in 1967, not long after the introduction of antipsychotic medication and major tranquillisers saw an end to straitjackets and padded cells.
Served for many years in the British Psychological Society in a variety of roles including President in 2006-7 and retired in 2010 from the post of Professional Advisor for Psychology to NHS Lothian.
Continues to lecture as an Honorary Professor at Heriot Watt University and to be involved in a number of public and voluntary sector projects promoting psychology.
Why is it every time the Daily Mail is mentioned, when it comes to the LCP?
Is that only thing which really bothers the NHS? Headlines. I think it is rather the relatives of the the patients who should bother them more. Those you have starved, abused and dehydrated. However, it is probable that you use the Mail as your rather convenient cover for the horrendous maltreatment which has occurred with patients at the hands of the LCP.
Patients and relatives have suffered from the most horrendous abuse, including dehydration, starvation, medical care being removed and then in many cases, subjected to long and lingering deaths. All courtesy of the Liverpool Care Pathway, your modern day double faced Janus. Personally I would not treat a dog the way some of these people have been treated. Indeed you would have been arrested if you had done.
Perhaps if you take the time to read some of the experience people have had on this Face Book page, real lives, real experiences, you then would realise that your opinion is very displaced. The NHS has become the barbarian of the future, with the LCP being nothing more than a deplorable, malfunctioning framework which to all intents and purposes is nothing more than some program designed for the implementation of euthanasia
https://www.facebook.com/groups/387889604604007/
But finally your a fit and healthy person, subject yourself to the treatment on the LCP for a whole week, maybe then you will get some idea of the abhorrent treatment which your medical authorities put people through, sickening to the core, it really is.
As a brief aside one of the potential speakers Edinburgh Skeptics could have invited up to give this talk would have been a terminally ill doctor who was in support of the Liverpool Care Pathway.
Speaking personally, and not representing the views of Edinburgh Skeptics, I would suggest that the appropriate course of action for you to take would not be to seize the moral highground but rather attend the talk and hear the other point of view. You will then have the option to voice your disagreement and ask questions.
Perhaps such an open minded approach would be beneficial to both sides in this debate in understanding the issues at play?
It would certainly seem a more productive strategy than calling the NHS the “barbarian of the future” and “modern day double faced Janus”.
Also the assumption that all members of the Edinburgh Skeptics are “fit and healthy” is a dangerous, and incorrect one, but don’t let the facts get in the way of a polemical rant.
I did not intentionally set out to denigrate the better half of this double faced Janus, merely expose the alter face. Of course in some cases, under the most strict of diagnostic criteria, i.e that of terminal illness, it may help in the last few HOURS of life. Note I say hours not, days or weeks, which a number of patients have been subjected to.
The double face of this, merely exposes the parts that the NHS, try to conceal, do not want to recognise, or merely term as mistakes. Mistakes that have left the lives of relatives, shattered and broken by the actions of the NHS and its LCP. Relatives have been left feeling bewildered, again in a number of cases feeling in some cases as if their loved one’s have been murdered. Yet there has no support or even acknowledgement that a misdiagnosis may have been made. Of course, in consideration of that, there is no way the NHS could acknowledge a misdiagnosis anyway, as that would lead to massive financial claims. So of course the NHS cannot say it has got it wrong and will therefore continue using the Liverpool Care Pathway with impunity. Once a doctor says you are about to die, you will committed to the Pathway and you will die. No choice about it, indeed had it not been for the intervention of relatives, some people would have been spared.
The NHS loves to placate the public with their embodiment and plethora of propaganda, yet if anyone criticises or stands up to their hype, they are told that what they say is either lying or reciting headlines, whereas the truth is an entirely different matter.
As for the moral high ground, I did not take it, all I did was merely exemplify the sheer cruelty of the LCP, with actual cases which you can read about. The LCP is in fact a framework which has been systemically abused. Had that framework not been implemented it is very probable that a number of people would have been alive today. In consideration of the overall use of the LCP, the NHS cannot be trusted, it will lose public confidence and it will be through its own fault. Remember, papers only report and even they have not reported what I would consider to be the worst cases of abuse, the use of the LCP has wrought.
Finally, one last consideration in all this, the LCP has not been used exclusively for people who have terminal illnesses and in reality Its its implementation is down to nothing more than guess work and suppositon and is certainly not based on either medicine or science and that has been acknowledged.
‘That’s what the Daily Mail says, but what about the actual truth?’ How nice that Dr Sarah Keir will be looking at the recent media claims, the evidence behind the claims and the LCP, and discussing the impact of the rumours on patients and their families. With all due respect I’m afraid that, in my opinion, Sarah Keir being a Consultant Geriatrician and follower of the LCP holds no water, whatsoever, in any debate/discussion related to this Euthanasia of the Elderly aka LCP. The truth that they are looking to find is being lived by patients and families on a daily basis throughout the UK. Call me a skeptic or more than likely call me a conspiracy theorist, I do have doubts about the moon landings, though I watched it on TV in 1969. However, I witnessed IN PERSON the Euthanasia of my beautiful mother in November 2011 in a Scottish National Health Hospital … how Ironic ‘National Health’ sounds to my ears. I would like to attend your meeting and listen to the good doctor but, distance makes it impossible.
I rather wish the LCP had been followed when my Dad was dying, instead of the muddle, confusion and lack of communication. As it was, without good information on the likelihood of recovery, we allowed the hospital to subject him to several days of distressing and ultimately degrading treatment, culminating in death on an emergency assessment ward instead of a quiet side ward where he was comfortable and had space and privacy.
But of course you don’t want to hear that, because in your mind the only victims are the ones the Daily Mail has cherry-picked for its manufactroversy.
It’s always nice to see people witholding judgement until after they’ve heard what someone has to say.
Sorry to hear about the your loss of your mum Kay, just to let you know, you are not alone in what you endured. Time was when no connections would ever have been made and this activity would have gone unnoticed.
I bet the NHS wish for those times now.
Hey, I would love to be proved wrong … but, I doubt it. Thanks James Mee, for understanding my pain, I assume you have suffered at the hands of LCP.
Sorry about your loss Guy and it’s awful for your Dad and family to go through what you did. Can I just say that I don’t follow the Daily Mail, in fact I plan to have a look at their opinions as, obviously, they make references to the LCP. I do believe that this pathway can be used properly, it was, on an aunt of mine (in her home) suffering from cancer, with MacMillan Nurses. However, my Mum was ‘selected’ and by the time I got home it was too late to reverse ‘their’ decision. (I live and work abroad) What hurts more than anything is that I did not know about ‘the plan’ until well after the event and I feel that I let my Mum down. My sister didn’t understand what was said by doctors at the time. My Mum may not have survived her last ‘episode’ but they decided that she shouldn’t. Also, so many serious mistakes were commited by doctors leading to Mum’s situation. I believe we both feel our own loss significantly and neither of us is at peace with the way they were dealt with. God bless.
Hello all.
Thanks for commenting about this event, and thank you very much for keeping the comments polite.
This site is re-actively moderated by volunteers and we only see comments after they have been posted. At Ed Skeptics we have a policy of “Respect people, challenge ideas” http://www.edinburghskeptics.co.uk/about/respect/ and this applies to the comments threads on our website, on our Facebook page and at our meetings.
Thanks, all, for your courtesy to each other regarding this painful topic.
Ed Skeptics Admin
I look forward immensely to this upcoming event! I am glad that there is finally an opportunity for public discussion surrounding this controversial topic in Edinburgh and indeed involving Dr Sarah Keir, within whose geriatric department at the WGH, I have cared personally for patient in my job within NHS Lothian several times. In these instances I have also seen the LCP put to good use in ensuring a patient passes with minimal suffering. There are many rumours, many myths, many concerns and many potential issues surrounding this furore and it’s good to have involvement in the debate in my trust.
This is exactly what we need – to COMMUNICATE between one another on each side of the argument to find the common problematic threads which are likely not to be one or the other but perhaps be gleaned by discussing our views with one another. It is easy to label those against the LCP as “ignorant” in frustration as I sadly have even done myself; for those in opposition it is easy to label healthcare workers as “murderers” which shamefully many do through their anger. This serves absolutely not purpose other than to offend and to further fuel the divide. I hope this will be a civilised, open-minded discussion taking into account both the evidence-basis of the LCP and what it entails as well as an aknowledgement that though the LCP certainly isn’t a “license to kill” there are grave problems intrinsically within it in regards to staff training surrounding palliative care and communication about death with families, especially in a culture where it is such a taboo.
I would love to write more, but I am late for Anatomy…